PayPal Gives UK Buyers 6 Months' Protection for e-Goods

by: Philip Cohen

"We're always looking for ways to give you extra peace of mind and make you feel more secure when you shop online. That's why you can now choose Pay After Delivery at checkout. With Pay After Delivery purchases, we'll pay the seller straight away but will only request the money from your bank account 14 days later. This gives you the time to receive the item before you pay. If the item doesn't arrive or isn't what you expected, you're covered by PayPal Buyer Protection."—PayPal …

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/
general/PADLaunch-outside
https://www.paypal.co.uk/pay-after-delivery-more/

This “way” is simply another “PreyPal” pea-and-thimble trick to try to get buyers to allow “PreyPal” the much cheaper access to funds via “direct debit” on the payer’s bank account, rather than via a credit card. The problem is, if you do give “PreyPal” the authority to directly debit your bank account, as a buyer you then have absolutely no protection from “PreyPal” which is equally as bad as having no recourse to an unscrupulous merchant, recourse which you still do have from both an unscrupulous merchant and an unscrupulous “PreyPal” if you only allow “PreyPal” access to your funds via a credit card account …

Fortunately, we can always tell when an eBay or "PreyPal" spokesperson is being disingenuous—their lips are moving! ... http://bit.ly/YvxFEg

by: FREDDY

@ Mr. Cohen,
Believe you are right on concerning paypal.

6 months for e goods is ridiculous. Shows how much that ebay corp is really hurting. It will be in the US and elsewhere after a few months in the UK. Feel sorry for anyone in the that business. No more downloads.

by: Ina

As I noted early this morning when I heard back from PayPal UK, the 6-month protection is for all goods - including physical goods.

Hoping to get further clarification, but if this comes to the U.S. and effects eBay transactions it would have a huge impact on sellers.

by: Puck

With ePal buyer protection nothing is ever really 'Sold' in the accepted sense of the word.

Folks listing on eBay or accepting The Pal anywhere will be permitting 180 day free home trials of their merchandise or services.

Eventually both companies will force satisfaction guarantees in perpetuity on sellers.

PayPal was never smothered in the crib by banks and credit card companies because they are really super merchants of record and a huge revenue stream for these entities.

If credit card companies and issuers really wanted to put the kibosh on The Pal they only need to double the merchant fees they charge them and The Pal would explode like the Hindenburg.

Banks, credit card companies and PayPal are all part of the same corporate hypocrisy.

"Oh, the humanity!"

by: Bidonmine

Sorry, 180 days is way to long. Brick and Morter merchants are cutting back on their return times because of rampant abuse.
180-day rentals are not for me.

by: Rexford

180 day rentals is not for us either.  We'd be done with anything eBay or PayPal related. Use a printer cartridge for 180 days and return it?  Buy a new $1000 camera, try it out for 180 days and return it?  Wear a brand new winter coat for 180 days during the winter months and return it in the spring?

Pure insanity!  If it were coming out of their own pockets this idea would not make it past the proposal stage.

by: bitbybit

Well if the 90 day return doesn't get small and medium sellers to leave ebay, then the 6 month should surely do it. Right?

by: Mr. Me

A buyer should only need a week to determine if item is what he ordered, if it is in good shape, and working. A week is generous, anything over is just plain stoopid !

by: Philip Cohen

“As I noted early this morning when I heard back from PayPal UK, the 6-month protection is for all goods - including physical goods.”

Wow! Fee-free rentals for up to six months now! They are either insane or getting desperate. Regardless, this has the smell of a palliative care nursing home about it to me. Given that the professionals in the field, MasterCard and Visa, will give buyers a quite reasonable, in most circumstances, 45 days to lodge a transaction dispute, and then provide a professional mediation process, “PreyPal” must have been very successful at suckering users into giving “PreyPal” direct-debit access to their bank accounts (not even MasterCard or Visa have such access to your debit account), otherwise how is “PreyPal” going to enforce this policy on merchants when all the “smart” buyers start short-term “renting” instead of buying?

Methinks it’s time for at least the off-eBay online merchants using “PreyPal” to start talking to their real bank about a real-bank merchant account and “MasterPass” or “V.me” …

@Puck, MasterCard has already talked about the possibility of charging the free-loading “PreyPal” an extra fee …

http://www.nfcworld.com/2013/03/20/323195/mastercard-fights-back-a
gainst-new-payments-players-with-increased-transaction-fees-for-digital-wallets-that-dont-share-data/

“PayPal rides for free on the back of other business models. So they ride on the back of the networks for a card-funded transaction. They ride on the back of ACH, which is owned by the banks, and I think they've got to be cautious that they don't get too big and start making people wake up and say wait a minute, I'm actually losing business here because of your moving into the physical space. And, by the way, you've been able to ride for free on the back of the networks and the back of the ACH system—time out here.”
—Chris McWilton, MasterCard's president of US markets, speaking at a conference on 13 March 2013

“PreyPal”, with only ~1.1% of the total payments business, has never been, and never will be, any serious threat to MasterCard/Visa; and PreyPal’s attempts to expand into physical POS are simply a joke—and a very poor one at that, most potentially for merchants; but Johnny Ho has to try to keep the atrophying eBay marketplace afloat somehow (maybe another “reduction” in eBay fees will do the trick—LOL) …

eBay / PayPal / Donahoe: Dead Men Walking ... http://bit.ly/11F2eas

by: Puck

"Well if the 90 day return doesn't get small and medium sellers to leave ebay, then the 6 month should surely do it. Right?"

Right.

by: Puck

Every time I read about a decision like this I get an image of the Billy Bob Thornton character in Sling Blade thinking it up.

by: Rexford

Ina, I would think many big box retailers on eBay would take issue with this. Is there any way to determine if this rule applies to anyone accepting PayPal, or are certain companies exempt from the policy?  If they are exempt, we can clearly see that this is just another maneuver by eBay/PayPal to run small and medium sellers away.  

by: Ric

So let me get this straight... eBay/PayPal believes that a company like Toys R US (who they defend to the hilt) is going to sell a toy, ship it to the buyer, and six months later after a child has played with the toy and broken it, PayPal is going to demand Toys R Us refund the buyer?

Even though it is April 15th, this is either a belated April Fools day prank, or it is the latest example of how completely and totally this company is disconnected from the real world.

Carl Ichan needs to forget about the peace offering and continue his assault on eBay's CEO. This 6 month nonsense is proof positive that this company's management is the most inept of any major corporation on the planet.

by: Gina

Lovely! Another way the UK is killing friendly international trade!  No matter how much you pay for tracking and delivery confirmation, UK Post can just drop it at the door and give you no tracking!  Now they give customers 6 months to enjoy and copy 'intangibles' OOOPS!  Now the update sayd 6 months for ALL goods!
Running to block UK shoppers!

by: ejholden

Aussie sellers are up in arms at the moment after ebay announced a 9.9% FVF on all shipping costs.
Wait until eBay's globalisation program dumps this latest act of desperation in their laps .....

by: bitbybit

Ebay has absolutely no justification in charging a shipping fee especially since Paypal charges a fee on the total amount. Isn't double dipping illegal? What does ebay do to earn a percentage of shipping?

by: Basset

180 days is insane.

Rental is the word for that. I think I would try to deduct a re-stocking fee for each week the item was away from me if it was returned past my normal 14 days.

I know U.K. consumer laws can be a bit different - does that have anything to do with this?

Like ''bidonmine'', I also keep reading the trend is for large retailers to be reigning in their return policies due to too much abuse.

by: Ric

... a (PayPal) spokesperson told EcommerceBytes, ...."If our customers value and benefit from these new protections we may consider extending this program to other markets."

Another example of eBay/PayPal corporate disconnect. The statement indicates they are listening to buyers, but sellers.. well sellers have been "noise" since John Donahoe joined the company.

The statement shows how sellers are wholly disregarded with regard to consequences of newly formed policy. It is obvious that eBay/PayPal feel that sellers have no choices.

They forget that sellers are free to abandon eBay and PayPal at anytime, and the implementation of this policy could have sellers stampeding for the exits.

Sellers need to start working on their exit strategies - not just for eBay as a marketplace, but for PayPal and payments as well.

In a recent conversation with an eBay outreach agent over the extended holiday return issue, the suggestion was made that as a seller, I should wait and see how the change effects me before making any changes to listings strategy or store subscriptions.

I asked that agent if they were walking down the street, heard a crash, and saw a bus careening out of control in their direction, would they wait to see if the bus hit them before trying to get out of the way?

The response....crickets as usual.

by: Rexford

Ric says "They forget that sellers are free to abandon eBay and PayPal at anytime, and the implementation of this policy could have sellers stampeding for the exits."

This speaks to the total arrogance of the company. I think that the company management think that they can implement any policy whatsoever, no matter how outrageous and no matter how harmful to sellers, with no repercussions.  Think again eBay / PayPal management.

by: Xander

Ebay will continue to ratchet down on sellers while forcing them to give more and more generously to ebay buyers worldwide.

They know many sellers will stay and take the abuse, they have history to draw from now, they'll continue to pressure their sellers to go along with their insane pro buyer dictatorship.